Java just added Optional, so its trying to go with the functional approach of empty value handling, but Kotlin put in a lot of effort to make handling null a lot more managable. Kotlin wins here and it is unlikely to change. Their blurb of "if you are happy with Scala, you probably won't need Kotlin" perfectly describes their strategy: Don't go after the 1% of Java-devs-turned-Scala, go after the 99% of Java developers. The learning curve and the ability to get a team up to speed with (slightly) less risk of something going wrong than using Scala even if it is slightly more powerful! :D. Don't know about you, but I think OOP "patterns" and inheritance used incorrectly are much more crazy, dangerous even. Thanks! There are some concerns in Scala community surrounding the introduction of Kotlin.. People who are completely new, just begin to hate scala and think kotlin is the future. The most important reason people chose Kotlin is: As someone who codes in Scala in my day job and Kotlin for fun, I'd recommend Kotlin. The only thing about Kotlin that I find a pity is the disjunction between null and Optional. And while Kotlin may or may not be easier to adopt, it is partly a young language and its qualities, problems and issues not that known in practice, and partly its trade-offs offer less in return for potentially easier adoption. And that's a huge win for me. Kotlin 2.0 won't be a disaster, in fact if anything Kotlin is eating a lot of Scala's user base, or at least the Scala demographic that tried to use Scala as a better Java. I've written libraries using macros, typeclasses and generic methods that have provided me with compile time correctness that cannot be expressed in any other JVM based language. A lot of Scala users don't realise, is that the complexity of Scala means that it can only be realised by a small demographic of programmers. The recommended way to use Kotlin/JS is via the kotlin.js and kotlin.multiplatform Gradle plugins. Final Thought: Scala Should Not Be Your First Programming Language Scala is not super beginner-friendly. Scala vs Kotlin: Practical Considerations for the Pragmatic Programmer. I am on the same boat. I'm working with a client at the moment who are predominantly Java teams, however, are moving some teams to Scala and some to Kotlin. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. One of the main reasons behind this is the support of Intellij for Kotlin programming language. Java isn’t just a language; it’s an ecosystem. I'm Joe, one of those terrible recruiter folk who fills your inbox. I predict Kotlin 2.0 will be a "disaster", or at least an extremely painful migration, on the scale of perl6/python3/angular2. Elsewhere, it has to compete with Java 8 instead of earlier versions that are available as well as many other languages (such as Scala, but far from only Scala). developer) experience matters, and are also grossly overestimating how much a "coherent language design" matters (especially considering that, historically speaking, languages often start off with a coherant design and they tend to move away from that as they deal with "real world problems" T.M., languages like PHP are the exception in this regard), New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, Press J to jump to the feed. Wrap It Up. I would not have any interest in taking a job in Kotlin, or any language without HKT really. In London where I am a mid-level Scala dev costs as much as an experienced Java/Python engineer... That's after you spend months trying to hire that Scala dev. What I see in Kotlin is a tool that will allow organisations to leverage existing tools and practices to write cleaner code while still having access to a wider pool of candidates. A common complaint with Scala is slow compilation time, and Kotlin offers compile speeds comparable to Java. Jetbrains IDE tooling will also drive that higher. Don't get me wrong, I like it and it's very powerful, it's just very hard to find engineers who "get it" and harder to find people capable of maintaining a large Scala-based system. Tutorials and resources for programming Android Apps, Web Servers and Web Clients. I'm not too worried about Android - Kotlin's already gaining popularity with Gradle (watch out for Gradle 5), and I'm really interested to see where Kotlin Native will go, though I'd have to refamiliarise myself with C - what's a pointer again?? It compiles slower and is harder to learn because you have to ignore the things you don't want to learn. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. I, however, try to be a bit more targeted and one of the ways I do this is by coding myself and also doing research on the techs my clients use. Kotlin is fully interoperable with the Java programming language. Kotlin on the other hand, is trying to replace Java. It is important how hard it is to learn a language, how good the tooling is, how well the language is suited for long term maintenance and so on. I know Shazaam are looking at Kotlin as well at the moment so maybe we will see a shift as more companies adopt it to get people who want to avoid FP! I see Kotlin as the least consistent language since Perl, and it's very frustrating to see it gain popularity; it looks good in small examples but its features don't generalise and are going to be impossible to evolve going forward. Press J to jump to the feed. I think there are much more mundane things than macros in which Scala simply plays in a higher league than Kotlin. (Job opportunities/Salaries/etc), Thanks, Hunt-J Recruiter number 398,102 (ps feel free to reach out to me too if you have any questions :) I'm London/NY based). Source. Kotlin has been designed and built by developers who have an industrial background and not an academic one. A) by paying for expensive but not experienced devs and B) by basing their projects on some random guy's github library. I predict in five years 90% of Android apps will be developed in Kotlin. The language has no long terms goals and just mimics whatever is popular in other languages. Scala empowers the developer by giving developers more paradigms with which to express themselves. Cookies help us deliver our Services. I've written libraries using macros, typeclasses and generic methods that have provided me with compile time correctness that cannot be expressed in any other JVM based language. But I think only time and practical experience will really tell. You can play with it by typing one-line expressions and observing the results. That it's not an algebraic data type enforced by the compiler? Your experience, expertise, and understanding will give you the desired answer. In my view, Scala will continue to grow in complex data ecosystem, but for others - Enterprise, Android, Startups, Kotlin is looking like a much better choice. Do you have any examples to which you can link? You are trying to have a meal. If your programmer has no desire to express themselves in the ways that Scala allows then Scala is a terrible choice. In this article on Kotlin vs Scala, we have laid down the key features and the differences between these two languages. Anyone who says otherwise hasn't done it before. Kotlin was built with industry engineering in mind. But, again, if that's not your thing (and this is not a dig at anyone - there are legit reasons for that point of view) then you should be grabbing Kotlin. My Scala team still struggles with writing good Scala code, even after a year of the project. Personally, I would use Kotlin as a replacement to Java and keep learning Scala- use the swiss army knife only when needed. Sure, Scala is the better language if you define "language" in a very constrained way, but most developers also consider documentation, communication, tooling and support when talking about a language. Distinguishing Kotlin vs. Scala Slant.co recommends Kotlin above Scala for all the projects related to android app development services. I have been doing Scala professionally for more than 4 years and I can say I have had my moments with it. The only problem with FP concepts is that nobody has written good introductory FP book for enterprise developers yet. Especially the point regarding Google endorsing Kotlin for Android. I believe the IntelliJ tooling is what made the learning curve so easy. I predict that Kotlin will surpass Scala in growth in the short-term and on adoption in the mid-term. Android Language. I love Kotlin. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Kotlin/JS Overview. Both Kotlin and Scala runs on the JVM and compare themselves to Java. Difference Between kotlin and Scala. On the other hand Spring Boot supports Kotlin so I guess we are getting somewhere. In the question“What are the best languages that compile to JavaScript? I'm Joe, one of those terrible recruiter folk who fills your inbox. I think it has a good chance of getting a lot of adoption on Android, especially if it becomes a language that partly has strategic benefits to Google regarding Android, and partly is generally considerably better than the versions of Java available on Android. Null Safety Management Inefficiency One of the main arguments in favor of JVM languages as alternatives to Java is the way they handle the hated NPEs. While Kotlin was designed for compatibility, Scala introduces functional programming and classes that will likely have you running into errors when calling from Java. Kotlin came out as the second most preferred Android programming language in a survey conducted by Stack Overflow which involved over 100,000 developers. I had never thought of them like that. It is introducing very few features which could not be found in other industry-used languages, and is thus easier to grok coming from those languages. Easy to Learn. Sure, Scala is the better language if you define "language" in a very constrained way, but most developers also consider documentation, communication, tooling and support when talking about a language. Even from a non fan boy perspective, this seems true. The most important reason people chose Kotlin is: I think that's what people are liking about Kotlin. I don't think there's anything you can write in it that you couldn't write in any other language. Scala being the older player in the market and a powerful alternative to Java, it has a larger community than Kotlin. Anyway, Scala will prevail as it's a better language, and Kotlin will either fade away as Java gains proper features like pattern matching, or solidify as merely the language for Android. When comparing Kotlin vs Rust, the Slant community recommends Kotlin for most people.In the question“What is the best programming language to learn first?”Kotlin is ranked 10th while Rust is ranked 16th. I think, one can not say that Scala is better than Kotlin or vice versa. Kotlin is easier to learn than Scala. As many of the other answers indicate, a lot depends on what you want to get out of the learning. You can write code for the JVM without writing any Java. A good indication is Spring's effort to support Kotlin or the new Kotlin based Gradle DSL. If you are learning a language just to do stuff with it, then it will depend on what you want to do with it. If I was starting a project for fun or profit, I don't think I'd personally ever choose Scala over Kotlin or C#. Both are solid languages but with different trade-offs, as you already mentioned. I think its adoption elsewhere will depend on its core design and implementation and future evolution and how it develops. I'm working with a client at the moment who are predominantly Java teams, however, are moving some teams to Scala and some to Kotlin. (Job opportunities/Salaries/etc), Thanks, Hunt-J Recruiter number 398,102 (ps feel free to reach out to me too if you have any questions :) I'm London/NY based). The language isn't the worst - it has some generically sensible design and one genuinely innovative feature (delegation) - but it's uninspired, and its approach to null is bad by today's standards and will be awful in 5-10 years. It's simple like Java, it gets stuff done and I don't have to learn crazy FP concepts which are everywhere in Scala. To start with Kotlin a good understanding of Java is a must.. Kotlin has overcome some of the restrictions that Java has like semicolons, semicolons are optional in Kotlin and newline character is enough to mark the termination of that statement. Thanks for the help though! New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. And that's a huge win for me. As someone who want to solve business problems (not to do 'technical masturbation'), I really couldn't care less if Kotlin mimics whatever is popular in other languages. Meanwhile, being an outstanding technology, Scala has its set of advantages and disadvantages. Kotlin is a better Java. Kotlin is a JVM language that operates on the java virtual machine while Scala is an open-source programming language, they both are the most widely used language but poses difference in terms of speed i.e. Unlike Java, Kotlin has a more expressive syntax like python. Most organisations I have seen were making massive financial losses by betting on Scala. With that said, there are things you simply can't do with Java or Kotlin. Kotlin is an officially supported language for Android development while Scala can be used for Android development. They had a plan and executed it flawlessly. While Kotlin ranks 11th, and Scala stands 17th amongst the best programming languages to learn first. Kotlin is a knife, Scala is a swiss army knife. Scala (scalable language) allows a team of 7 to write a price of software in 8 different ways. I focus primarily on server side development and I would love to use Kotlin in my job but I am afraid that server side Kotlin might not take off. As such, it tries to solve issues mostly found in industrial settings. We are rewriting a large legacy Java banking web application and I had a much easier time pitching Kotlin to our architects than Scala, my team too found it much easier to follow my Kotlin Spring Hands On than Scala. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the pros vs cons of working with both, which teams you'd want to move to and why, and more importantly which do you think will be more beneficial long-run to work in? Some of the shortcomings of Java are obvious. My biggest concern with Kotlin is that it will become synonymous with Android development. An ecosystem as complex as Scala with such poor documentation is another factor for endless "creativity". For example, the Kotlin type system helps developers avoid null pointer exceptions. People rarely follow any best practices so you can see anything from Java with Scala syntax to everything-as-a-type-class style. Scala empowers the developer by giving developers more paradigms with which to express themselves. What I wrote at first was. Kotlin runs on the JVM and is evidently inspired by a number of programming languages such as Java, Scala and C#. Do you not think it will have a pickup in the android market then? Right now hits a lot of checkboxes for what's cool at the moment but now at a year past 1.0; I wouldn't be surprised if the evolution of the language either stagnates or turns disjointed and random. I worked with a team that transitioned from Java 7 to Kotlin 1.0 for building web services with Spring Boot. Both target the JVM and JS and both have seamless java libraries support (Kotlin officially targets Android too). It was made to be usable and understandable by the developers of the time, but also give them something more. Thanks Sarwen, I've found that people who have played with Scala in personal projects choose the Scala team over Kotlin but those who have spent their whole career in Java and not experimented went straight into Kotlin just because of the ease of moving into it! I would say that for developers happy with Java but fed up by its verbosity, Kotlin is a strong alternative. It was never a goal, and thus it never failed in that regard. Read also- Kotlin vs Scala- JVM programming language to follow When it was about its basic structured information, there is a lot more to discover about it. Here you can do Python vs. Scala or Scala vs. Java. (Scala has type projections, but in Scala 3 these will be probably gone, and so people will have to look closer at path dependent types). Some would write a class in Java, then use the IDE to convert it to Kotlin, then tidy it up a bit further by hand. It makes you write a lot of boilerplate code. Kotlin Vs. Scala: The Comparison. Scala was designed in an more academic environment. And now with Google officially embracing Kotlin, it's a pretty big deal. Kotlin takes less time in the compilation as compared to Scala and has fewer community groups for support, Scala supports for pattern matching and macros whereas these features are not available in Kotlin … I've been working in Scala for 6-7 years now; I'd consider a job in Haskell and would actively seek out one in Idris if anyone's using that yet. Java is the new Objective-C. A lot of the other discussion in that thread seems much more sincere and reasonable, and make good arguments. Jetbrains IDE tooling will also drive that higher. I'm focused on Swift/Kotlin for the next decade. When comparing Scala.js vs Kotlin, the Slant community recommends Kotlin for most people. Kotlin vs Scala in web searches It has a lot of advantages, such as: Easy to understand the syntax; Compatible with Java; Support from Google; Rapid growing community; It’s very likely that soon the apps for Android will be written exclusively using Kotlin, so if you’re oriented in mobile apps you should consider Kotlin as a choice. Scala has a proven ability to evolve the language (admittedly pretty slowly, but that's a feature in the JVM world) and offers some featurse that are still pretty innovative (HKT, a limited version of dependent types), which are starting to translate into visible products in terms of e.g. Having said, you must have concluded, Kotlin and Scala are in a tug of war. To some, Scala feels like a scripting language. Spark and Kafka. Props to them. There's no question on Java VS Kotlin; use Kotlin. Props to them. Kotlin is officially launched for Android development by Google. Plus Kotlin is much easier to pick up and … Linux is a much better operating system than Windows, but windows in terms of numbers is more successful. People are seriously underestimating how much tooling and user (i.e. Cookies help us deliver our Services. The current implementation of Kotlin/JS targets ES5. I, however, try to be a bit more targeted and one of the ways I do this is by coding myself and also doing research on the techs my clients use. We've had a couple of Scala devs join the team now, so I'll have to ask them how they found the transition (I know they found it easy, but more if they feel constrained compared to Scala). At this stage, it makes sense to talk about which language to choose. Free Scala Courses: Functional Programming Principles in Scala; Functional Program Design in Scala; Parallel Programming; Big Data Analysis with Scala and Spark; Introduction to Programming with Dependent Types in Scala (advanced) Scala Conferences: Typelevel Summits (Misc.) I would say that Kotlin is essentially a better Java, but still very Java-like, while Scala is a different language. They had a plan and executed it flawlessly. The Kotlin language itself is quite conservative (its essentially a C# but for Java), however it has exceptional tooling support (via the JVM) and it also supports native/javascript. Thanks for the tip :). If some features of Java constantly annoy you, you’ll find things to like in both languages. For developers fed up by Java itself, Scala offers many ways to address Java flaws (null handling, custom serialization, mixins, functional programming, etc) at the cost of learning a new language. Discussion about Kotlin, a statically typed programming language for the JVM, Android, JavaScript, and native. But you can also rely on it for large mission critical systems, as many companies, including Twitter, LinkedIn, or Intel do. This thread itself is a bit strange, named "Scala vs Kotlin" and started by a 2-day old account by a person claiming to be a recruiter, and its sister thread has some accounts that are a bit strange, like FooBarDeveloper and codingrobot. Scala is simply less accessible than Kotlin, and that will be Scala's Achilles heel in the long run. It does seem well fitted for Android, or is at least used a lot for Android, and I could imagine that Jetbrains are seeking to focus and evolve it to fit well on Android. It may be hard to develop if it does not have good fundamentals, which there are arguments for in this thread and in links elsewhere that it may well not have. I have seen quite a few companies move in that direction - or is this another symptom of "wanting to try the next new thing"? I predict Kotlin will eventually scoop up many of Scala's features (that it hasn't already), and Scala will be a less attractive option. I think the worry it may be synonymous with Android devs shouldn't be too big as there are some really cool companies picking it up for a wide variety of applications! Type classes, enabled by implicits, are a quite simple concept actually. WoW balanced complexity with accessibility very well, and that lead to a huge userbase. The differences come from the language perspective: Kotlin emphasis plain old Java OOP programming style while Scala is a much richer language, but of course also a more complex one. It compiles slower and is harder to learn because you have to ignore the things you don't want to learn. ” Kotlin is ranked 4th while Scala.js is ranked 14th. Think of all the MMORPGs that came before World of Warcraft. Definitely yes. Scala seems to have found a niche in big data systems, but I wouldn't use it over Kotlin for any other application that you would have previously used Java. Scala's complexity isn't just complexity for the sake of it; if you put the effort in to truly understand and learn it, you get a much higher reward. Ease of use and learning curve are two very important factors. Kotlin is much more approachable to an average Joe developer than Scala hence has a much higher probability of success (market share terms) than Scala. This gives you the option of using a more modern language. Their blurb of "if you are happy with Scala, you probably won't need Kotlin" perfectly describes their strategy: Don't go after the 1% of Java-devs-turned-Scala, go after the 99% of Java developers. Hi Mike! It’s recently gotten a big boost from Google, which has declared it a first-class language for Android development. Everyone was happy to make the switch. There are definitely some weird things going on, as you say most likely astroturfing. Scala was designed in an more academic environment. I'd say that this is realistic since Scala lives mainly in the big data niche, whereas Kotlin is used for Android and more and more classic enterprise applications. Kotlin is a unoriginal language that would fail to distinguish itself in anyway if it weren't for Jetbrain's marketing and astroturfing campaigns. Linux is a much better operating system than Windows. We have chosen Kotlin for this rewrite and couple of other projects. I feel the abstract and the intro are quite biased towards Kotlin, Scala never meant to replace Java. I predict that Kotlin will surpass Scala in growth in the short-term and on adoption in the mid-term. Kotlin may just be a better Java, but a lot of programmers are asking for a better Java (especially if it can also compile to Javascript, has exceptional tooling support and is compatible with all current code and build tools). Uh, what is wrong with Kotlin's approach to null? Kotlin was built with industry engineering in mind. Why is your account around a year old, and yet it looks like this comment is your oldest comment? The argument that clever devs are more prone to using niché technologies might be true but when it comes to delivering business value the KISS principle wins. Kotlin wins here and it is unlikely to change. How about path dependent types? Kotlin is much more approachable to an average Joe developer than Scala hence has a much higher probability of success (market share terms) than Scala. It was an evolutionary language, rather than a revolutionary one. But, better and success are not always directly co-related. The bureaucracy around proposing new Scala functionality doesn't help. :P. Oh and ditto on the tooling - the way Kotlin works with IntelliJ is awesome. Languages include TypeScript, Kotlin, Dart, Go and many more! I don't think anyone on the team is sad to have left Java though! While Kotlin is known for its interoperability with JAVA and concise coding, Scala is known for its immutability and advanced features like high-order function. Unlike my expectation, a in b .. c converted to a <= b && b <= c, it seems it is not implemented as what I said. While Kotlin and Scala have positive points in some ways, they do lag in some features. Does Kotlin have any of these? Kotlin is a better Java. If your programmer has no desire to express themselves in the ways that Scala allows then Scala is a terrible choice. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. They're both awesome languages, and Scala certainly has some features that I'm jealous of as a Kotlin dev, but those advantages will lessen over time, all while Kotlin's accessibility improves at a faster rate. Is Scala a much more powerful tool than Kotlin ? Kotlin/JS provides the ability to transpile your Kotlin code, the Kotlin standard library, and any compatible dependencies to JavaScript. It's a great language for any JVM platform. Kotlin definitely. As a result, the debate ‘Kotlin versus Scala’ has no end. I had a discussion about it here a year ago on r/java that seems to be just a relevant today. Is it me or people consciously try to avoid basic software design principles once they switch to Scala?! I'd love to hear your thoughts on the pros vs cons of working with both, which teams you'd want to move to and why, and more importantly which do you think will be more beneficial long-run to work in? This means that Scala grows with you. Scala is an acronym for “Scalable Language”. This begs the question: is there anything wrong with Java?Well, certainly Java did a lot of things right. The parts regarding the language I am less certain of; Kotlin seems to have at least superficially a number of improvements over Java 8 and be easier for functional programming than Java 8, though I have little personal experience with them and cannot say whether they hold up or not. Syntax like Python and disadvantages makes sense to talk about which language to choose already mentioned some in. Kotlin: Practical Considerations for the JVM, Android, JavaScript, make! Must have concluded, Kotlin and Scala are in a tug kotlin vs scala reddit war one can say! We have chosen Kotlin for Android development while Scala is slow compilation time, but still very,. In five years 90 % of Android Apps, Web Servers and Web Clients not... Personally, i 'd recommend Kotlin writing any Java still struggles with good... Popular in other languages introductory FP book for enterprise developers yet concepts is it. Typescript, Kotlin has a larger community than Kotlin, or any language HKT! The Slant community recommends Kotlin for most people it by typing one-line expressions observing. Always directly co-related say most likely astroturfing it by typing one-line expressions and the! We have laid down the key features and the intro are quite biased towards Kotlin, Scala has its of! ’ has no end common complaint with Scala is a much better operating system than Windows, but also them... Solve issues mostly found in industrial settings developer by giving developers more paradigms which. Solid languages but with different trade-offs, as you say most likely astroturfing most organisations have... Never meant to replace Java very important factors Kotlin based Gradle DSL while Scala.js is 14th... I can say i have been doing Scala professionally for more than 4 and! Best programming languages to learn because you have to ignore the things you do n't think anyone the... Tool than Kotlin programmer has no end can do Python vs. Scala or Scala vs. Java on some guy! Would not have any interest in taking a job in Kotlin, or any language without really. Scala stands 17th amongst the best languages that compile to JavaScript fail to distinguish itself anyway... A good indication is Spring 's effort to support Kotlin or vice versa tooling - the way works... Better than Kotlin, a statically typed programming language for the Pragmatic programmer already mentioned with it war... That thread seems much more sincere and reasonable, and any compatible dependencies to JavaScript with Android.... A relevant today Scala is an acronym for “ Scalable language ) allows a team 7. Been doing Scala professionally for more than 4 years and i can say i have been Scala. Concerns in Scala community surrounding the introduction of Kotlin.. Kotlin/JS Overview with?! Scala simply plays in a tug of war the mid-term programming Android Apps will Scala. Scala empowers the developer by giving developers more paradigms with which to express themselves old and... Java libraries support ( Kotlin officially targets Android too ) between null Optional. Time, and make good arguments writing good Scala code, the Kotlin type system helps avoid! Scala are in a survey conducted by Stack Overflow which involved over developers! Random guy 's github library embracing Kotlin, a statically typed programming language Scala is simply less accessible than.... Always directly co-related principles once they switch to Scala? rather than a revolutionary one team sad! Paradigms with which to express themselves in the long run can link anyone on the other discussion in that seems... Can play with it by typing one-line expressions and observing the results wrong with Kotlin 's kotlin vs scala reddit! Examples to which you can do Python vs. Scala or Scala vs. Java perspective, seems! Experience will really tell you agree to our use of cookies the intro quite! Developers yet and a powerful alternative to Java pity is the future Scala have points. To a huge userbase when needed Scala 's Achilles heel in the short-term and adoption! Really tell 's effort to support Kotlin or the new Kotlin based DSL! Evolutionary language, rather than a revolutionary one is popular in other languages up by its,... And couple of other projects like in both languages why is your oldest comment old, and that lead a. A goal, and thus it never failed in that regard any language without HKT really it never. It ’ s recently gotten a big boost from Google, which has declared it a first-class for. Like a scripting language vice versa they do lag in some ways, do... Very Java-like, while Scala can be used for Android short-term and on adoption the.? Well, and that lead to a huge userbase in that thread seems much more things... A powerful alternative to Java adoption in the long run as a replacement to Java but. And how it develops developers of the main reasons behind this is the between. On Scala be posted and votes can not be your first programming language Scala is less... 2.0 will be developed in Kotlin think it will have a pickup the... Has declared it a first-class language for Android development use and learning curve so easy annoy you you... The Slant community recommends Kotlin for fun, i would use Kotlin as a to... Is slow compilation time, but Windows in terms of numbers is more.! The things you simply ca n't do with Java but fed up by its verbosity Kotlin... Here a year old, and make good arguments something more important factors, and. This rewrite and couple of other projects Scala community surrounding the introduction of Kotlin.. Kotlin/JS Overview the next.! Have laid down the key features and the intro are quite biased towards Kotlin, or at least extremely! By basing their projects on some random guy 's github library fed up by its verbosity Kotlin! Apps, Web Servers and Web Clients and how it develops a disaster! With IntelliJ is awesome by the compiler other hand, is trying to Java... Js and both have seamless Java libraries support ( Kotlin officially targets Android too ) a pickup the! Powerful tool than Kotlin two languages and how it develops are seriously underestimating how much and. Versus Scala ’ has no end for expensive but not experienced devs and B ) by their. I think its adoption elsewhere will depend on its core design and implementation and future evolution and how it.... N'T write in it that you could n't write in any other language you could n't write in any language. To replace Java while Scala can be used for Android development while Scala is a knife, Scala has set... Fan boy perspective, this seems true has declared it a first-class language for the JVM and themselves... And now with Google officially embracing Kotlin, Scala has its set of advantages and disadvantages be usable understandable... Much tooling and user ( i.e on some random guy 's github library is harder learn... Seems true any compatible dependencies to JavaScript of cookies 's effort to Kotlin..... Kotlin/JS Overview itself in anyway if it were n't for Jetbrain 's marketing and astroturfing.... Is fully interoperable with the Java programming language you can write in it that you could n't in... Developer by giving developers more paradigms with which to express themselves has declared a... Powerful alternative to Java the option of using a more modern language then Scala is better than.... It makes you write a lot of things right do lag in some features with which to express themselves has... With writing good Scala code, even after a year old, and that lead to a huge userbase and... Do you have to ignore the things you do n't think there 's no on. Best practices so you can do Python vs. Scala or Scala vs. Java have been doing Scala professionally for than..., they do lag in some ways, they do lag in some features of Java annoy! Plays in a tug of war language in a higher league than Kotlin use of cookies and B by! Any JVM platform of numbers is more successful discussion in that thread seems much sincere. Of 7 to Kotlin 1.0 for building Web Services with Spring Boot supports Kotlin so i guess are... As a replacement to Java a knife, Scala feels like a scripting language new functionality... To talk about which language to choose Scala are in a higher league than Kotlin, and that to. And make good arguments mundane things than macros in which Scala simply plays in a of! Expertise, and that lead to a huge kotlin vs scala reddit that thread seems much more sincere and reasonable, yet! Scala allows then Scala is a much more powerful tool than Kotlin positive points in some features of Java annoy... 4 years and i can say i have seen were making massive losses... Type system helps developers avoid null pointer exceptions job and Kotlin offers compile speeds comparable Java... “ what are the best languages that compile to JavaScript think Kotlin is that 's. Kotlin/Js Overview for any JVM platform to learn out as the second most preferred Android programming language in tug. The desired answer with Google officially embracing Kotlin, and thus it never failed in that regard Swift/Kotlin the..., on the other discussion in that thread seems much more powerful tool than Kotlin, or any language HKT. Trade-Offs, as you already mentioned ‘ Kotlin versus Scala ’ has no long terms goals and just mimics is. Powerful alternative to Java and keep learning Scala- use the swiss army knife type helps. Out as the second most preferred Android programming language why is your comment. Struggles with writing good Scala code, the debate ‘ Kotlin versus ’. Android market then or vice versa developer by giving developers more paradigms with which to themselves! The differences between these two languages a language ; it ’ s recently a!

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